Hey MWodies,
So yesterday we talked about moving away from pathognomonic cues (in engineering these are considered lagging indicators), and moving toward identifying pathomechanical cues (these are leading indicators). A comment in yesterday’s comments asked for specifics on the pull up as an example. So, I grabbed my Spanish Gymnast Champion (Doesn’t everyone just have one just laying around?) Carl Paoli to demonstrate some of the force bleeds and torque dumps that we typically see in this movement. Got an old tweak? Well, restore your position to restore your function. Want to go faster? Well, improve your position to improve your function. But for Leopard’s sake, don’t be a brohken, chicken necking, low torque puppet. We hate puppeting.
Test/Retest: How many of these errors do you make? Do your pull up numbers and movement quality go up when you minimize movement variables?
Kstar
18 Responses to “Episode 360/365: Pull Up; Pathomechanical Indicators”
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Damn, those were some great tips on technique and keeping tension in the correct places throughout the movement. Is there a pathomechanical reason you showed the butterfly pullup instead of a typical pullup? Keep these types of videos coming, they are a big help in improving technique.
Awesome tips. Regaining Position Creating torque. What!! Love it! As Coaches we need to identify these faults and improve our athletes to becoming effecient work horses. Giddy Up.
tagged as “torque puppet” – awesome
Great episode! Finally I understand why I have not tore in a while.
In a future episode can you explain why many crossfitters experience pathognomonic pain in the wrists when OverHead Squating and possible solutions to improving our form/grip so pain is not present.
No one seems to have an answer for this. I’ve asked many trainers/people.
Your pocket gymnast needs to work on being a better role model on poor form:)
Wow. I came to this site, first time in a while, looking for some relief and culprits to my elbow pain.
And THIS was on the front page. Didn’t even have to search. That Gymnast is a badass.
Hey Mr Pocket!! Good to see Carl again…
Watched this two days ago and implemented the changes described yesterday and could not believe the difference it made for me. I have been struggling with hands slowly slipping during the kipping pull up which inevitably leads to a swing in the bottom position. Found the narrower diameter pull up bars at our box, locked in my grip and started kipping away. Thank you!!!!
Great stuff!
I have one question.
How are you addressing the scapula mechanics in the pull-up? I understand the “push-out” and externally rotate the shoulder in the bottom position, but how are you initiating the pull in a strict pull-up ? Are you thinking of retracting scapulae, what kind of ques are you using? And how are you thinking about scapula stabilization?
It would be nice to see some kind of progressions on the pull-up . All the steps from positioning to the complete movements. (strict, kipping, butterfly) .
Thank you!
No doubt the grip effects things upstream (elbow) – weird, huh? I used to get medial elbow pain after high-rep pull-up sessions. I switched to a strong overhand grip on the bar, and immediately my elbow pain went away. And immediately, my forearms were shot. Lack of equitable forearm strength is a very likely reason for bar-in-the-fingers grips and hand-tears. Can anyone say “farmer’s walks”?!
I am that guy. I can’t do kipping pull-ups because of the pain in my left shoulder that has been there now for over a year. I do strict pull-ups, with bent elbows and when I try to lie on my back, rib cage checked I feel impingement to get my arm straight over my head lying on the ground. Can’t do it. That all said I have been trying almost everything on this site to get the ROM back in my shoulder. I’ve also been doing Edo Portal drills, but 2 months in not much change yet.
Quick question. Using bands in the position of pain (on back, hand overhead, straight elbow) with the elastic helping me pull causes stretch and pain. Is that OK? If it will get ROM I’m happy to do it, just need to know that I probably won’t re-injure doing it.
Much love
Ken Haney,
Hey be careful, I’ve a lot of experience with shoulder injuries that had to be rehabilitated through physical therapy. Before I tried physical therapy I tried Edo, but Edo works mainly on stabilizing the scapula so that the shoulder can have the mobility it is meant to display. This doesn’t affect your current ROM, as it isn’t directly affecting the soft tissues, mechanics, and muscles in your shoulder system. Edo works on the scapula system. That said, be wise about your use of Edo until after your ROM returns, and I would completely advise a DPT that understands kinetic chain and basic shoulder mechanics and does manual therapy on the muscles that affect shoulder ROM (teres minor, supraspinatus).
Jon
I want to reiterate einar’s post, I don’t quite understand the pull portion in the terms you’ve described. I’ve always focused on using my lats to pull, and in the days when I weighed only 200 I could do several without kipping, strictly pulling with the lats. But this tends to go against the demo you gave here on bad form (thorax thrust forward). So, in bottom position, shoulders externally rotated, grip overhand and locked in, what’s the prime motivator for upward? I know it’s second nature to you, but not to me quite yet. Thanks.
Also, I would like to comment on the method of demonstration / instruction. I appreciate showing bad form, but I’m more interested in the required form, the good form. I need to see it, see it again, see it from different angles, basically have it hammered into my brain. Once there I’ll be able to tell what’s not good form on my own. Iteration for those of us that are slow (maybe it’s just me) works wonders. Thanks.
I have the same basic question as einar: I understand now what NOT to do. I am, however, confused as to where the pull up starts. Is it a pulling back of the shoulder blades or an unconscience movement similar to driving the elbows toward the floor? Any help would be greatly appreciated.